Marcello Lippi

FIFA.com: What is your earliest FIFA World Cup memory?
Marcello Lippi: Well, my earliest and most vivid memory is of the semi-final clash between Italy and Germany in 1970, which we won 4-3. The others are more like snippets, that I can only remember bits of. But that is definitely my clearest memory.

Do you feel that the FIFA World Cup has changed a lot over the years for the average fan?
It seems to me that the biggest changes have been in the way the tournament is covered by the media. The technology that allows the entire planet to enjoy World Cup matches is absolutely fantastic nowadays. That's the biggest change in my opinion.

Did coaching Italy to victory at Germany 2006 make up for that disappointment of having missed out on Germany 1974 as a player?
The truth is that too many years have gone by between those two tournaments. Back then I was generally considered to be in the running for the role of sweeper in the national team. The first-choice at that time was Pierluigi Cera. My name was mentioned but so was that of Santarini, Turone and many more. To be honest, I've no idea how close I came to being called up. That said, just being in the frame was a great experience.

What do you feel is the main difference between the FIFA World Cup and other football competitions you have been involved in as a player and coach?
The main difference lies in the fact that it was the first time I'd coached my country's national team. All the other competitions I've coached at, even at the very highest level, were with club teams. Representing your country is the best thing that can happen to a player or coach. It's the first time I've experienced emotions that I simply can't describe. Moreover, we were fortunate enough to win the Trophy, an experience that is beyond compare. I've won titles with Juventus, domestic championships and even the European Cup, but I've never been overcome with emotion like I was when we won the World Cup.

Does the way you prepare and motivate your players change much during a FIFA World Cup?
No, the way each coach motivates his players is something very personal. All coaches have their own way of getting their message across to their team. It doesn't depend on whether you're coaching a club team or a national side. Besides, over the space of a number of years, a national team coach tends to make the national team work like any other team, as if it were a club side. That's why the way you motivate your team, get your message across, and communicate with your players is practically the same whatever the circumstances.

Turning to Germany 2006, can you tell us about Italy's progress over the two years leading up to the tournament and the seven games on German soil that culminated in victory for your side.
As I explained in my previous answer, over those two years our overall objective was to bring home to the players the need to work together as a team, for the simple reason that national team players spend very little time together. That's precisely why the first objective we set ourselves was to turn ourselves into a team, just like any club side. Then, we had to try and get the fans back on board, as they'd been a bit demoralised. One step at a time, that was our goal. As far as I was concerned, after one year of using a lot of different players, it became clear that I had to trim down the size of my squads in the second year. The aim was to bring the numbers down to around 30, and no more than 35. As the World Cup approached I had to choose 23 players out of that group of around 30. Meanwhile, we weren't just trying to build a team mentality, we also needed to function as a team from a technical and tactical point of view. The only way to make significant progress in these areas is by lining up with the same players time and time again.
The road to qualification began with a game against Norway. This was an important game because Italy started poorly, before showing a great deal of strength of character.

You know what we Italians are like, don't you? Just one defeat is enough to send morale through the floor, and of course that has a knock-on effect on performances. That's the psychological baggage we'd inherited from the last two major championships we'd been involved in, the European Championship in Portugal and the World Cup in Korea/Japan, where things had gone badly, very badly for us. We'd already been put up against the wall, everybody had their rifles out, aiming at us. Therefore, as we'd lost a friendly game over in Iceland with a group of players short on fitness, the situation had become somewhat critical. From then on, from the game against Norway until the France clash, we deserve credit for losing just one game.

Against Slovenia.
Yes, exactly, against Slovenia.

Once Italy had booked their place at the finals, it was time to choose who you were going to take with you. Am I right in thinking that of those who missed out, [Aimo] Diana was the player that you would have most liked to take to Germany?
That squad had been together for a long time. Both Diana and Christian Vieri, who were virtual ever-presents in the national team squad over that two-year period, missed out through injury. Were that not the case, they would have come with us.
The first game in Germany was against Ghana, a team you considered to be inferior to your team in certain areas, and superior in others. Events out on the pitch proved you to be right, as Italy put in... a good performance! As you know, that game, and the World Cup in general, took place during a very testing time for us, psychologically speaking. This was due to all the problems football in our country was facing. There were even those who suggested that Italy shouldn't be taking part in the competition. Those problems even affected the squad at an individual level. To sum up, it wasn't easy. It was our first game and we faced the added difficulty of being up against a quality side in Ghana, who were very physically very strong and technically very gifted. My team showed great character and deservedly emerged victorious, and that gave the squad an enormous morale boost.

What about the Italy-United States match?
I felt that during the Italy-USA match we paid the price for all the effort we put in against Ghana. As I mentioned before, there were certain times when there was an unbearable amount of tension in the air. The lads summoned up all their strength and used most of it in the Ghana match. In the three days that followed, they really struggled to recover, particularly mentally, and we had to dig very deep against the United States. It was a very difficult match because our opponents were physically very powerful. Besides which, being a man down caused us problems at times. On the other hand, we still could have won that game because we created several opportunities, but we also overstretched ourselves.

Then came the Czech Republic.
Italy-Czech Republic had huge psychological implications. We realised that, given France's early results, if we could win our group and avoid Brazil then it would give us a great opportunity of making it through the Round of 16 and quarter-finals. Not that it would be easy, but we'd avoid the big guns. If we beat Czech Republic, we'd face Australia in the last 16 and Ukraine or Switzerland in the quarters. The players and all the rest of us were well aware of that situation when we took on Czech Republic, and that was reflected in our performance. We displayed tremendous hunger and will to win, determined to win the group and make the most of the great opportunity before us.

Your team certainly made the most of that opportunity. Up next were Australia in the Round of 16.
In my opinion, we didn't take the Australians lightly. Of course we knew that playing against Australia was quite different from taking on France, Spain or any other of the big teams. Despite all that, we went into the game taking nothing for granted whatsoever. We knew we were up against a very well-drilled side led by a coach who'd caused the Italian national team problems in the past. We approached the game with the idea that the result was by no means a formality, and that we were in for a difficult match. We showed a great deal of character and humility and took an awful lot of risks, despite being a man down for more than an hour. At the end of the match, [Fabio] Grosso rewarded us for our efforts with an exceptional piece of skill in the 94th minute. Seeing a defender join the attack in the 94th minute of the match, break into the penalty box, evade two challenges and win a penalty is not something you see every day. That just shows that the team had the right mentality and will to win the game, even if it meant risking everything in the very last minute. Totti was extremely brave in making sure we got our reward, and took that penalty with icy coolness.

What about Italy-Ukraine?
In the meantime, as often happens at big tournaments, the team was growing in stature with each game, as well as growing in self-belief. We had the chance to book our place in the semi-finals and didn't waste it. Right from the off, we put everything into the match and went ahead almost immediately. We went on to leave ourselves a bit too stretched, but we got another two goals in the second half and sealed the result with a superb display. We were becoming a very powerful team, both technically and mentally.

Then came the semi-final against Germany, many people's choice for game of the tournament. What do you remember about a night when 60,000 German fans packed the stadium in Dortmund, where the Mannschaft had never previously been beaten?
It all springs from this: at that point in the competition the team was showing signs of a sense of security, of a total belief in their own ability. We felt extremely strong. But you have to remember that the host nation also went into the game high in confidence, and were very sure of themselves, their physical fitness and everything else. Besides which they had home advantage and were playing in Dortmund, where they'd never lost a game. We found ourselves in a hostile environment, with 60,000 fans cheering on our opponents to such an extent that every time the Italian fans made themselves heard, the German supporters drowned them out instantly. My team played superbly, displaying their strength of character for all to see. They played with authority, dominated the game, and proved that they deserved the win, even if they had to wait until the closing minutes to secure it. However, over the 120 minutes, there was no doubt who deserved to win.

There are a couple of technical and tactical issues I wanted to ask you about. Germany played with two strikers, [Lukas] Podolski and [Miroslav] Klose, while France played with just one. Which system caused Italy most problems?
Look here, the Italian defence performed extraordinarily well at the World Cup. Our players, [Gianluigi] Buffon, [Fabio] Cannavaro, Grosso, [Gianluca] Zambrotta, improved as the tournament went on, reaching previous uncharted levels of performance. What's more, the formation is only one of a number of factors that influence how a team approaches a game. This approach is the result of mutual understanding and cooperation. It's not about which opponents caused us more problems. For example, I admit that we had a tougher time against France in the Final, although it wasn't because of their formation or any specific approach to the game, it had more to do with tension and accumulated fatigue.

At the start of Germany 2006, you claimed that the big teams were set to move away from their traditional styles of play, such as Italy's historic emphasis on defensive solidity or Brazil's commitment to all-out attack. You even went so far as saying that Italy's more incisive football could spring a surprise. Was extra time in the Italy-Germany game the perfect example of this?
Games start off one way, then take a different course before very often finishing in a completely different way to how they started. Over 120 minutes coaches have time to call on all the technical and tactical resources at their disposal. I was convinced that our defence was the most solid. In fact, I knew that our back-line was the most watertight, even before the World Cup, and this was confirmed by what I saw at the competition. Once extra time had begun, I realised that the game had become an end-to-end contest, with both sides launching attack after attack. That said, Italy looked more menacing. At that exact moment in time, because we knew that our defence was more than capable of coping with Germany's attacking thrusts, I decided to unleash all my attacking options. The idea was that even if the game did go to penalties, I'd have all my top goalscorers out on the pitch and we'd be in the best-possible position to win the match.

Yes, it was one of those games when whoever struck first.
Exactly, but if we're honest, we were always closer to making the breakthrough than they were. You only have to look at what happened in extra time: our attacking forays were much better organised.

When did you realise the team was capable of going all the way? Against Czech Republic, Australia or Germany? At what point did everything become clear?
That moment never really happened. I've been asked that question so many times. "At which precise moment did you realise?" There was no exact moment. As I said before, self-belief grows with each game, and that strengthens the team's character and personality. There was a turning point after the game with the USA and before facing Czech Republic. That was when we realised we had a great chance of going all the way to the Final, because France's results meant that we'd be up against Australia in the last 16, and Ukraine or Switzerland in the quarters. We knew then that we couldn't waste the opportunity before us. It was clearly not the same as coming up against France, Spain, Brazil or one of the other top teams.

Your team were now safely through to the Final. Am I right in saying that after the Germany game you watched the video of the match in the early hours of the morning?
I always used to watch our games in the early hours of the morning. I watched them again every day, at about three or four in the morning. I couldn't get to sleep so I killed the time by watching our games. Besides, I've always done this throughout my 30-year career: I watch the games again straight after they've finished. This is so I can pick out the positives, and particularly the negatives aspects of a performance, and start thinking of how to solve them.

Another question regarding the Italy-Germany game if I may. [Andrea] Pirlo made a number of vital interceptions in that match. Did you consider him and [Rino] Gattuso to be your first line of defence?
If you recall what I said before, even before the World Cup I was convinced we had the tightest defence in the world. I also said that if the rest of team don't play their part defensively, then the back-line cannot be anywhere near as impenetrable. Moreover, what I told you before is the same thing you're asking me now. Our defenders would often turn into our attackers, taking on opposing defenders and then tracking back to help out in defence. Our midfielders also carried out a dual role, acting as both playmakers and defensive shields, and played a huge part in shoring up our defence. Therefore, in answer to your question, yes they were.

One last question about the semi-final. Italy enjoyed their most sustained period of attacking play with the match minutes away from going to penalties. Were you concerned about facing Germany in a penalty shoot-out?
That didn't even occur to me. It's not about what I was thinking or not, the simple fact of the matter is we all feared the game going to penalties, not just against Germany but against France as well. As you'll be aware, penalty shoot-outs have not been kind to our national team in recent years. It wasn't long ago that I lost the Champions League Final against Milan on penalties, and that's why I didn't even want to think about it. I was thinking about what I mentioned before, that the game was going from end to end, and the midfield was being bypassed. Italy were perhaps edging things slightly. At that point I started thinking that the best thing to do was to freshen up our forward line with three or four incisive players, because neither team were creating anything in midfield anymore and our defence was perfectly capable of repelling the German counter-attacks. What's more, [Alessandro] Del Piero, Totti and some of the others were specialist penalty takers. Honestly though, that wasn't part of my thinking.

Two more quick questions: Totti took a lot of corners against Germany and Lehmann dealt with them all fairly easily. Is that why you changed corner-takers for the Final?
Yes. After the game we had a big laugh about that, joking that we'd given Lehmann plenty of practice in defending corners. It was simply because we didn't vary them at all. Totti wanted to try taking them from a bit further back, but they all ended up like that.

In the Final the job went to Pirlo.
Yes, that's right. Pirlo took it upon himself to take them.

The other point I wanted to make was about [Vincenzo] Iaquinta. Do you agree that he offered a level of tactical flexibility that would not have been possible with Vieri?
I would have taken Iaquinta to Germany even if Vieri had been fit. This is because Iaquinta usually plays as an out-and-out striker but, like many centre forwards, he's also comfortable playing out wide. He's got the pace you need to play on the flank.

Can you tell us a bit about the Final and what you said to your players just prior to taking the field, and before the start of extra time, which television viewers were able to hear.
Yes, they were very simple words, not at all forced or overly eloquent. I told them that sometimes you need to thoroughly examine what's going on around you, analyse your opponents' style of play and work out how they are causing you problems. Then we studied the situation out on the pitch at that exact point in the game, in order the make best use of the quality at our disposal. What was said referred specifically to the circumstances at the time. I remember that my last words before the game began were: "In two hours' time I expect to see you crowned world champions."

How would you describe the Italy-France game?
The Italy-France match was a very tense affair. In fact, I personally can't remember any World Cup Finals being particularly free-flowing or spectacular, without psychological pressure taking its toll. It's very difficult to see an open Final. Besides, we went 1-0 down after seven minutes after a penalty was awarded. Well, whatever happened, from that point on we produced a superb first-half display and levelled the game with a goal from [Marco] Materazzi. Not long afterwards, [Luca] Toni thumped a great header against the bar. That said, if I'm honest, I must admit that we struggled a bit in the second half. Fatigue accumulated over the course of the tournament started to get the better of some of our players. France had us under the cosh: they didn't have any real goalscoring opportunities, but the threat was most certainly there. In extra time however, Italy managed to reassert themselves and exert much more pressure. There was a lot of attacking play but very few chances, except that header from [Zinedine] Zidane. We also threatened the opposition goal, but didn't create any clear-cut chances.

Against Germany, Italy always looked like scoring, although that was not the case against France.
Exactly.

Would it be correct to say that there reached a point in the game when everybody was waiting for penalties?
No. I've watched that game again many times and I've seen a lot of situations (I'm talking about our attacking moves, not goalscoring chances) that could have produced very clear opportunities with a bit more luck. It just goes to show the team's determination to put the opposition area under pressure and to keep pushing forward. There was clearly very little fuel left in the players' tanks, and France were running on almost empty too.

What was your initial reaction to Zidane's head-butt? Why did you charge towards where [Raymond] Domenech was standing?
Well, those are two very simple questions. After seeing what Zidane did I was upset, angry and a bit sad. I know Zidane really well - I coached him for five years at Juventus. He's a wonderful person and a truly great player, perhaps the most talented player the world has seen in the last 20 years. He's an extraordinary individual. It made me very sad that he did something like that. There had to have been somebody who saw what happened. The match official or his linesman might not have seen it straight away, but I'm certain somebody else would have spotted the incident. It made me feel really sad because I knew he was retiring after that game and he was going to leave football on such a negative note. However, I ran towards the bench where Domenech was because I'd had enough of him miming the use of a film camera, as if to say Materazzi was play-acting. Everybody knew he wasn't faking, he'd been on the receiving end of a fierce head butt.

How did you decide on your penalty-takers?
Choosing the penalty-takers was the easiest thing I had to do during the entire tournament. Simply because all the players were so sure we were going to win that they were all trying to catch my eye and gesture to me, saying: "Let me take one, let me take one!" The only thing I had to decide on was the order they'd be taken in. When I told Grosso he was taking the fifth one, he said to me: "Me? The fifth one?" And I said to him: "Yes, you're taking the fifth one, the last one, because you're our last-gasp hero. You created a goal in the 94th minute against Australia and you scored a goal in the penultimate minute of extra time against Germany. Therefore you shouldn't have any problems in scoring the final penalty." Still, we were all convinced we were capable of winning the shoot-out. It almost felt as if the Trophy was already ours, that we'd already won. After the Italy-Germany game I asked Materazzi: "Have you ever played better than that?" Without hesitation he said to me: "My best performance will come on Sunday [the day of the Final]." The level of mutual understanding that the lads had by then was quite formidable. There was a fantastic spirit of camaraderie and togetherness, and when the members of a team know each other so well... Look, those exact qualities really came to the fore at this World Cup. There were other national teams that, perhaps, were technically better than us. Nonetheless, I don't think any other side had the same level of mutual support and understanding that we had, or our ability to live harmoniously together, enjoy each other's company and put ourselves out for each other.

Did you expect Trezeguet to miss his kick? Should credit for that go to Buffon?
Well, I didn't exactly expect it. It's just that every time one of the French went to take a penalty, of course I wanted them to miss. No, when Trezeguet was getting ready to take his kick my mind went back to the Champions League Final in Manchester. I remembered how he'd missed a penalty for our team, Juventus. I also thought the fact that Buffon was his team-mate at club level might affect him in some way. While all that was going through my mind he took his kick and missed it.

Your reaction to Grosso's goal did not appear to be very spontaneous. Before celebrating the winning strike you grabbed your jacket and glasses.
Whatever the case, that gesture showed how optimistic I was feeling. When we won the Champions League against Ajax in Rome after a penalty shoot-out, I lost my glasses. Everybody charged forward to celebrate and they got broken. So, in Berlin, before Grosso's penalty, I took my glasses off, slipped them into my jacket and put my jacket over my arm. That proves that I was sure we were going to win and that I'd need to run over and hug my players. Grosso shot and I quickly grabbed my jacket. That shows how much faith I had in Grosso.

Let's talk a little about some individuals. What can you tell me about Buffon?
Buffon... Listen, I don't like talking about individual players, but if that's what you want, then let's talk. After a performance like that, which was so beautiful, so sublime, so grandiose, I'd bring all the players together and use just one adjective to describe them. They were all extraordinary. Nevertheless, every time I refer to any of them individually all I'll say to you is "extraordinary, extraordinary, extraordinary". They were all extraordinary, and I'd like to highlight two players, not because they were better than the others, but because they proved that they had the greatest strength of character: Buffon and Cannavaro. Why you ask? Well, the pair of them had a huge amount of dirt thrown at them and were able to rise above it, to turn that experience into positive energy. I kept a very close eye on those two, and that could be why they felt so strong, even more so than the rest of the players.

A lot of those players come from coastal areas and are sea-loving folk, like yourself. Do people from these areas have a something extra about them?
I don't know, I don't know.

A special bond, a togetherness?
I don't think so. The special bond that held us together didn't have anything to do with whether they came from the countryside, a mountainous region, or the coast. It was down to the lads' moral fibre, which, over the space of two years, helped transform an unconnected group of people into a genuine team, blessed with excellent technical prowess and admirable moral values, no matter where they came from. Besides which, many of these players didn't have much international experience and didn't feel capable of performing on such a big stage. For these precise reasons, now you can see why our win has taken on such extraordinary proportions. It is down to players like that, whose only previous international experience may have been limited to the UEFA Cup. Despite all that, they appeared in the World Cup quarter-final, semi-final and Final and performed with great personality and strength of character. They played with truly exceptional composure and aplomb - a product of the mental strength, supreme confidence and total calm exuded by the squad.

And everybody made it onto the pitch at some point, with the exceptions of [Marco] Amelia and [Angelo] Peruzzi.
Twenty-one of the 23. I don't know if that's a record, but there's no doubt it doesn't happen very often.

One last point about individual players: Materazzi and [Alessandro] Nesta. Tell us about Nesta, arguably one of the finest players Italy has ever produced.
Not just Italy, the world. He's definitely one of the best central defenders in the world. It's a pity that the lad's luck seems to desert him at international tournaments. On one occasion he fractured his knee, and he got injured this time too and could only play two and a half games. Basically, he's had no luck at all. Even so, from the last 16 onwards, he trained with the team with absolutely no limitations and was incredibly enthusiastic about the possibility of making it back for the Final, like Baresi did when he got injured in the United States [in 1994]. Unfortunately he didn't make it, but he still has time to show what he's capable of.

You allowed Nesta to train for a couple of minutes in the team's final training session prior to the Germany game. Was that because he asked to be involved and was willing to risk everything? Or was it your decision, to see if he was fit enough to play?
Yes, it was the former. Nesta wanted to give it a go, not so he could play against Germany, but because he wanted to ready in case we reached the Final. But it would have been impossible for him to take part in the following day's game. He wanted to see how much progress he had made and try and speed up the recovery process just in case we reached the Final.

We have to ask you about the first time you held the Trophy.
The first time I held it was after the France game. Every time I won a trophy with Juventus, even the Champions League, I never joined my players on the lap of honour, it's just the way I am. I've always left them to enjoy precious moments like those with their team-mates. In fact, there isn't a single photo of me with any of the trophies I won with Juve. At the World Cup I did the same thing. Very few people would have seen what I was doing while the players did their lap of honour. I lit a cigar, because I'd not smoked since six that evening and I was really gasping for one. I still had half a cigar left when the players returned, but I wanted to hold the Cup, I wanted to raise it in the air. I remember that, while I was raising it aloft, Peruzzi grabbed me by the legs and lifted me into the air. I held it up like that for a while, in the air, then I joined in the celebrations with them. To hold the Cup in my hands was a wonderful feeling. It's aesthetically beautiful, and it means so much.
Raising the Trophy to the heavens is something very few players get to achieve.

How would you rate the Trophy, from an artistic point of view?
It's very, very, very beautiful.

It was designed by an Italian sculptor who claims to be very pleased that people like it?
Of course, that people like it, but more importantly that the Cup is back in Italy.
It's an incredibly beautiful trophy, with those athletes supporting the whole world, symbolically speaking. As with any trophy, its importance does not lie in the way it looks, or its status as a work of art, but in what it stands for.

What can you tell me about the reception the team received on Italian soil, and the celebrations?
The sheer emotion... It was extraordinary. As the competition progressed we'd get phone calls from our families, and see television footage of how passionate people were becoming back home, in the town squares - a level of enthusiasm that grew after each game. But I'd never imagined seeing two million people together in one place, lining the route from the airport to the Chigi Palace, and from the palace to the Circus Maximus. There was a sea of people that flooded into the Circus Maximus. I'd never seen so many people together in the same place, showing so much enthusiasm. It was wonderful to see.

Did you take the Cup out to sea?
No, but I did go out sailing as soon as I got home and I'll continue to do so, I'll keep going out fishing. No, I didn't take the Cup. But some of the players have travelled around with it. I know that Ferrara and Cannavaro took it with them to visit [Gianluca] Pessotto. It was a great thing to do, because Pessotto is an extraordinary person. It was a lovely thing to do.